Tax Strategy and Business Planning With Shauna the Tax Goddess
Disclosure: Ryan Kolden is an investment advisor representative of RPG Family Wealth Advisory. Colden Wealth is a DBA of RPG Family Wealth Advisory. The opinions expressed by the host and or guests in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Colden Wealth or RPG Family Wealth Advisory. No information on this podcast should be construed as as investment, legal, tax, or financial advice.
Ryan Kolden: All right. Today on the show, we have Shauna, the tax goddess CPA and founder of Tax Goddess Business Services. Shauna is passionate about helping successful business owners, entrepreneurs, and high wage earners create tax opportunities and manage tax risk legally. Shauna has her master's degree in taxation and prior to founding her tax firm worked at KPMG in high wealth financial planning and American Express's tax and business services. In addition to being a tax strategist, Shauna is also an author of multiple books and has been featured in magazines such as Forbes and Entrepreneur. Shauna, welcome and glad to have you on the show.
Shauna Tax Goddess: Thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited about today, getting to talk my favorite subjects, so I can't wait.
Ryan Kolden: Me too. Say I'm weird for wanting to talk about taxes, but it's fascinating. And I really love speaking with CPAs and I always like to ask every single CPA that I talk to, whether it's here on a podcast or if it's just kind of in passing or even in friends that I have that are CPAs. I like to ask them what, in their opinion, is the tax code designed to do and who is it designed for? So in your opinion, Shauna, what is the purpose of the tax code?
Shauna Tax Goddess: To give business owners breaks. That's my answer.
SPEAKER_01: Boom.
Ryan Kolden: I like to think of it as a way to engineer certain behaviors that, you know, the government finds to be, they want to incentivize. There's some info about the tax code that I got from house.gov. And house.gov, and I find it particularly interesting, it reads the US tax code is 6,871 pages. This will take about one week and two days to read. But when you include tax regulations and the guidelines from the IRS, it goes up to about 75,000. And in that case, it'll take 14 weeks to read it. So in your opinion, Shawna, why does the tax code, why is it so long and why is it so complicated?
Shauna Tax Goddess: right back to tax breaks. And I think that's why I think what I think, right? So if you look at the original, the very first ever tax return that we've ever had, right, it was a one page document. And it literally said, how much money did you make times the tax rate, pay us this. That's it. So I don't know how many pages long the tax code was at the time. But you can imagine not very, right, very, very simplistic. Now, over time, There's lobbyists, there's political parties, there's everybody, brother, uncle, Bob, you know, that wants a tax write off, wants a specialty code. And as you said, the government wants to incent certain behaviors. So every time something changed, let's add a paragraph here, let's add a couple sentences here. And now we have court cases because this guy didn't agree with this guy. over the nature of time, it becomes massive and unwieldy. And, you know, I don't think it's going to get any better, right? Every time they add a new bill, every time they add a new option, more court cases, it's more and more and more.
SPEAKER_01: And is this something that the average person can read on their own? So a lot of the times when I sit with people
Ryan Kolden: They don't have a CPA, right? And they're running a business and they've done a really good job, but maybe the bookkeeping is lacking. They're not taking advantage of certain deductions that kind of are standard. So, in your opinion, when you're sitting with clients, what are some general common mistakes that you see working with, whether that be business owners or entrepreneurs or high income earners that you think, Hey, these are things that they could be taken better advantage of.
Shauna Tax Goddess: Absolutely. Well, and I want to throw a little comment in here first just to kind of set the stage. This is where one of the biggest differences between your standard CPA, right? Somebody that files tax returns or your day-to-day bookkeeper, right? They are looking effectively at history. When you start working with somebody like us, we specialize in tax strategy. So we're very much looking forward. What can we change in what you're doing now? So that before December 31st, whatever we implement will help you reduce your profit, reduce your taxes, keep that money in your pocket instead of the government's. So when we talk about the most commonly missed things, it's very dependent on, well, missed by who? So your bookkeeper, in our world, we use something called an aggression scale. So 0 to 10, 0 meaning the IRS never calls you, never, ever, except for a random audit, because that happens. 10 meaning we're all going to jail. So when we say, well, who's missing what? Your bookkeeper, most bookkeepers, are gonna be at a level zero to two, okay? Their job isn't tax strategy, they're not really looking out for ways that you can additionally deduct things, right? Their job is, you spent money, I'm reporting the money, here's a proper set of books, okay? Now, you will get some that will say, well, hey, what about, so for your bookkeepers, what about an accountable plan? How are we writing off that home office? How are we writing off your personal cell phone that you're using for the business or your personal car that you're using for the business? Over and over and over again. When a new client comes to us and we say, great, give us a copy of your accountable plan. I'm sorry, my what? Okay. So that's to us, that's like the super low hanging fruit. If you don't have that thing on your file, you're missing out. Now, when we move up to the CPA level, right, the person who's actually filing the tax return, we start to expect the next level of basic strategy. So most CPAs, good ones, are going to be between a level four and a six if they're really aggressive. They're looking at things like a cash balance plan over a defined benefit plan with a 401k and a They're looking at things like using the Augusta rule, or sometimes called the master's exemption, to get 14 days of tax-free income. Clients of ours in New York City are spending about $19,000 per day on the Augusta rule. Things like paying your kids, right? If you've got kids older than seven or younger than seven that are super, super, super, super, super cute, five levels of cute, which is actually a court case. And, you know, you can pay those kids to be models in your business. You can pay them to sweep the floors to at 12 and 13, they can run your Twitter campaign, you know? So these, these are kind of the, the most basic ones that I would expect on any business that's coming in. And then of course, if they already have a, and I always do air quits on this, a so-called attack strategist on the team, what we are looking for are the basics at that level. Aggression seven, eight is more common. So are you doing above board captives? Are you doing conservation easements, right? Again, above board. I always feel like I have to say above board because the IRS does look at Captives, they look at easements, they look at oil and gas, are all of these things above board. But that's where you start getting into much larger dollar amounts. When we're talking captives, we're talking typically a minimum of 5% of gross revenue. If your business is doing $20, $30, $40 million, those are big numbers and big deductions. So when you say, what are the most commonly missed? To me, it all depends on, well, who is on your team, right? From the financial advisor side, are they bringing you partnership opportunities in solar, in film? Like, what other options are you looking for? Is your trust attorney bringing you clats and crats and prets, right? Yeah, I could go on. Sorry. I think you asked me for about two. Sorry, Ryan. Depends on who you're talking to, right?
Ryan Kolden: No, that's fantastic. And one of the things that you kind of alluded to earlier, we talked about was like how big the tax code is. And we're starting to talk about all these different strategies again, which has to fit in the context of your business and your overall goals. But do you think one of the reasons why people don't take advantage of the tax code is, aside from it being complex, is because they don't have that expert on their staff or even can afford to pay that person to do these things?
null: 100%.
Shauna Tax Goddess: So I always come at that question from statistics. So if you were to pull up on Google right now, which now, maybe not right now, we just looked at it about three weeks ago. If you were to count the total number of CPAs in the US, Google says there's about 665,000. Now, CPA is the first level, right? Because CPAs do all sorts of things. They, yes, they prepare taxes, but they're also auditors and CFOs and financial advisors, right? I mean, they do all sorts of things. The next level up when you start specializing in tax strategy is masters in taxation. The last time we looked, there's only 60,000 of us, right? People just like me, masters in tax. Above that, you have Certified Tax Coach, Certified Tax Professional, Certified Tax Strategist. the CTS, which is the top of the top of the top of tax strategists. At last count, there's 15, one, five that do what we do. Okay. So it never surprises me when people say, yeah, my CPA is doing strategy. And I'm like, great. Show me what they show me what they did. And they bring over a defined benefit plan and they bought a car last year. I'm like, okay, we'll get you some strategy, right? You know, it's so, It never surprises me when people just don't even know that strategists exist.
Ryan Kolden: Using the car always kind of irks me because it's like, if the goal was to not pay taxes, you got to keep that money inside of your system, you know, so to speak. And I'm sure, again, there's, there's reasons where people could justify it, but in terms of like, Hey, did you actually save money? Yeah, it didn't go to the government, but it left your system and you can no longer use that dollar.
Shauna Tax Goddess: Well, so the question is, how do you use the dollar? And I agree with you, right? Unless you're a car dealer, the money left the system, right? So the first round of money left the system. Could you set up a family limited partnership with your kids and have your business pay lease payments on the car to the family limited partnership to get some income over to the kids? The initial dollars are out, but you can create additional tax deductions above and beyond just that one purchase of the car. So the one thing I love about taxes, and I know you and I both kind of were geeking out a little bit on how much we love taxes before we got on today. One thing I love about taxes, and you hit the nail on the head earlier, what is the goal, right? If you need a car, buy a car, right? Or a truck or whatever it is you need. Buy what you need, okay? But if the goal is to get tax deductions, maybe with the car. If the goal is to set your kids up with all of their college paid for, okay, how can we do that with rental property, or with a car leasing, or can we buy a car and put it on Turo, right? Like, what other options do we have to make money from the assets that we want to have, right? The Airbnb second home, and then you get two weeks a year cash-free to go live in that house and spend time in that house? What are their options and what are the goals that you're trying to get to? Are you trying to build an empire? Are you trying to pay for the kids' college? Do you want to slide into the grave with zero? Do you want to give a million dollars to a charity? All of these things are so custom and so specific per person that it's really difficult to know which strategies any one person should use without really knowing the person, the family.
Ryan Kolden: Absolutely. And one of the things that I want to revisit real quick that I found kind of intriguing that you said was your aggression skill when it comes to strategy. So I've worked with a handful of CPAs just in my line of work. And the thing that I've discovered is. Just because something may be inside of the tax code doesn't mean that every CPA feels comfortable executing that strategy. One CPA may routinely execute a specific strategy all the time and have a history of doing it, whereas another firm won't even consider it. So I guess I want to get your take. Number one is like, why do you think that happens if it's like a black and white thing that's in the tax code? And then number two, how do you, when you're working with clients manage their, the client specific, like risk tolerance and executing and recommending specific strategies to them?
Shauna Tax Goddess: Absolutely. So your first question, why do I think that happens? Where one CPA says yes, another CPA says no. Nothing. is black and white. Nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing is black and white. And we know that to be a true right a true statement because the IRS will file a court case on absolutely anything. Right. So different facts different circumstances and at least as far. Let's see I've been doing this now for little over 25 years, at least as far as my 25 year history and all of my mentors and everyone else that I've ever known that has worked in this industry. I have never seen the same two sets of facts and circumstances ever, never, ever. So is everything black and white? No. And I think that's really where the major difference is between one CPA says yes. And one CPA says, Oh, not with a 10 foot pole. Right? I mean, I think that's just where that comes from. Now, to answer your second question, right? but the aggression level, right? And how do you manage a client's understanding of an aggression level? So their understanding and your understanding of what you understand them to understand, right? Cause y'all got to be on the same page, right? Communication is only as clear as communication is. So, um, you know, we ask clients right off the bat and we explain the scale, right? Listen, 10 is we're all going to jail. Okay. I'm, I'm a red head, red and orange do not go well together. I will not go to a 10. It's not happening, not going to jail. And nine is Al Capone doing some shady stuff, hoping you don't get caught. And I will have clients tell me, you can go there. And I'm like, I don't know. And eight, everything is legal, but you will get a call from the IRS asking for backup, paperwork, and whatever. A seven, no call from the IRS. You start going down the scale. Now, normally when you describe that to a client, to the client and their spouse, to the professional advisor, because often we'll have the CPA come with the client to the initial meetings where we're having these discussions. The clients, especially entrepreneurs, investors, people that really want to get out there, I'm a 20, I'm a 30, let them come get me. No. And we will turn to the CPA and say, OK, so what strategies have you brought up in the past that the client has said no to, if any? And because we've been doing this for so long, like I said, 25 years, well, five years previous and then 20 years, Tax Goddess this year will be turning 20 years old because we've been doing this for so long. We've seen which strategies the IRS likes to audit, right? What captains are the big one right now, right? They're going after real estate professional status. When you've got one spouse with a super high W-2 and the other spouse is a stay at home and now magically they're a real estate professional. It's one of the favorite things for the IRS to go audit, right? So when we're talking to clients, we start to scribe and figure out which strategies might apply in this case or this case for this family, for that business, whatever it is. And when we start discussing them, you pick up on hints of things. Okay. So a most recent example, we were in discussions with somebody. They told me, yep, absolutely. I'm an eight, you know, I don't really, I don't want to go to jail, but. take everything, I'm okay if I get a call. And when we spoke with the wife, the wife said, well, I don't ever want to get on the phone with the IRS. I mean, never, ever, never, ever. And we said, okay, we better downgrade you to a seven at least. Okay. And then, then we asked about, well, what about home office? I read an article 15 years ago that that's bad and the IRS is going to come get you for that. So no. And I went, you're now downgraded to a four. Okay. Right. So it's, it's a conversation. You really have to understand who it is you're working with. for two reasons, right? One, the aggression level, right? What risk are they really, you know, because everybody wants the super sexy $200,000 off your tax bill, okay? But is that really what you are willing to do, right? And part two of that, it's not only the risk, it's also the drive and the commitment to actually do the strategy. Because I can tell you what to do, and I can tell you how to do it, what day, what time, in what order, who you're calling, you know, pay this guy $50 at the door to get in, okay? But if you don't actually go do it, none of it matters, right? So it's really a two-fold understanding of the person you're working with.
Ryan Kolden: One of the things that you looked at or you said was, hey, a hypothetical client, they say, I saw this thing on Google from 15 years ago. I shouldn't do it. And you can almost find that's confirmation bias. And you can find any example of any tax strategy that it went wrong, and therefore you think it's bad. But I find a lot of the times, And one thing in particular comes to my mind is the Augusta rule, the master's rule that you talked about, which is a lot of it comes down to execution and administration of the strategy. So if you're someone that's, you know, charging the daily rate on the Augusta rule, that's 10 times of like anything else that's in your area. Of course, that's going to raise some red flags and someone's going to ask, hey, can you justify why you charged, you know, charge that? And they don't a lot of times have the documentation in place. So in your experience, do you see clients maybe that come from other places that don't have that administration and documentation in place?
Shauna Tax Goddess: Yeah. And you know, it's, it's a little bit heartbreaking because I see it in two, two areas, right? One, you've got a business owner who really has a job rather than owns the business, right? The business is running their life. They want to save the money. They're making good money, right? They understand that it's important. They say they can do it. Sometimes there's just not enough hours in the day, right? I mean, there just isn't, right? And so when you tell people, this is what you have to do. Either they will make time or they won't. Okay. Now, often those people and or the other end of the spectrum, which is a really successful business owner, they have an assistant. This is key. They have an assistant or an executive assistant or whatever. And they say, Oh, absolutely. My executive assistant is going to handle all that. That one almost scares me more. Really? Okay. Right. Because we have had multiple cases. where the executive assistant says, yep, no problem, boss, I can handle it. I'm going to get that done for you. When they start getting into it, they're going back to the boss to ask every single question because they don't know about the true inner workings of, you know, the boss's life or whatever it is. And that's where we start to see things fall through the cracks. You know, we, we told you, you got to do this. So send us a copy of the records. Oh, well, I mean, I didn't exactly do that. I did that. You know, you want to cry sometimes because especially for those bigger owners that are relying on their assistant, it's not the assistant's life that's being discussed. Because the assistant is not the one that's going to get the penalties or the interest or anything else, potentially more if it's done wrong. So yeah, this is really a private kind of matter in my opinion.
Ryan Kolden: Yeah. And one of the things that you said there that was absolutely huge, you didn't explicitly say it, but is redundancy. I think a lot of people, a thing that a lot of people get wrong is if you're filing your tax return yourself, you don't know what you don't know. Like you're not, you don't have your master's in taxation, like yourself, or you're not a CPA. Anytime you start involving multiple professionals, you're now getting multiple sets of eyes on it where you can, you know, someone can catch something that potentially went wrong. Now, one of the things that was really intriguing to me, Chana, was that you have this experience working at KPMG and then also American Express, and now you are running your own firm. What did you learn working at KPMG and American Express that maybe you're like, Oh, wow. Like I had no clue that the big guys were operating like that.
Shauna Tax Goddess: Absolutely, a fascinating question. I'll be honest, nobody's ever asked me that question before. Great question. So KPMG, right, huge firm, one of the big four remaining, the big four, right, one of the four remaining big four. Anyway, how to use, how to build a team to help you. Okay, so exactly as you're saying, how to build a team to help you. When I worked at KPMG, my only job, my only job was to do one I didn't call clients, I didn't do administrative work, I didn't do this other person's specialty with what they did. It was very, everybody had a very singular specialty that they focused on. And that brought a lot of value to those clients because when there was a problem with this specific thing, oh, we need Shauna for that, specifically Shauna for that thing, right? So how to build a team, how to integrate a team, how to make sure that all parts of the team are speaking to each other. Is a big thing from KPMG, right? At least as far as operations. I mean, obviously tons of tax knowledge, right? I mean, that's that's a whole other issue. Now, when we talk about American Express at the time, this was American Express business. tax and business services, their specialty was business owners. And so much more about how do you have conversations, not at a tax nerd level, right? We're not talking tax code, but how to actually have those conversations so that the business owner understands clearly, what are you doing? Why are you doing it? Why are you getting into it? Why is this the proper choice for you or not the proper choice and what you should be wary of, right? And really understanding that the business structures, the combination, mergers and acquisitions, you know, and anything from that, and that's more about the business itself. So really getting the individual side with the teams, getting the business side with all of the business specific strategies. And then, of course, having been on my own for 20 years, I've seen at this point, feels like everything under the sun. I've seen really good returns, really good plans, really bad returns, and really bad plans. It's good to have experience. And I think that's one of the other pieces that we hear. Earlier, you had asked about, well, what does somebody do if they can't afford a strategist? You buy the best you can, always. Right. You buy the best you can. And if that's one hour with a 25 year person that's what you do. Right. You free frame and you say exactly what you want and you do the best you can. If that's one hour with a three year person you do the best you can. Right. So always try to gather as much information as you can. And there are a lot of free resources out there that, you know, 25 years ago didn't exist. We didn't have thought that you should be taking tax advice from GPT or Gemini. OK, but they're good starting points. Right. If you're trying to decide, well, how do I write off my dogs? Start with GPT. Right. Explain your business model. Explain how the dog is the security for your junkyard. great, it will give you good basic knowledge, which then you can get confirmed either from proper research on the IRS website or court cases, via CPA, via a strategist, whatever it is you need.
SPEAKER_01: Those junkyard dogs can be very expensive.
Ryan Kolden: If you're not familiar with having a big dog, my family has a French Mastiff and she's amazing, but they're very expensive dogs. You have some pretty big dogs yourself, don't you?
Shauna Tax Goddess: of them. I have two German Shepherds, a Connie Corso, Great Dane, and two boxer mixes. So I know exactly what you mean by expensive.
SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of money. Yes.
Ryan Kolden: Now, Shauna, what are you working on right now, whether that's work, whether that's tax or outside of work that gets you excited?
Shauna Tax Goddess: I love it. Uh, that's a big question. I am definitely an entrepreneur at heart. So I'm going to kind of give you a list. So on the tax end, I'm working on two new presentations. One, how to build an empire. So for those people that want to raise their children, have the kids take their assets, double the assets, double the assets, double the assets. So how to build an empire. Uh, the other one that we are seeing right now, of course, a massive amount of business sell offs. You've got the boomer generation ready to retire. So how do you sell a business tax-free? How do you get out of it? How do you hand it over properly? So entity and legal structuring, that kind of thing. And then on the personal side, I would say I've got two fun projects that we just kicked off. One of them should be launching live on the iOS store. We have an app for profit first. So But for anybody out there that does profit-first accounting or is looking to automate their money savings, our little app is called Cash Goblin. Ooh! And it's asking me to survey. Here I'm trying to show Cash Goblin. But it's called Cash Goblin and it automates the movement of money. And the other business is Talent Gnome. which helps business owners hire overseas so that they can get the best quality talent for what they need. And of course at a little bit lower price than hiring here in the States. So pretty busy. I like to keep myself busy.
Ryan Kolden: That is very busy. Going back to kind of like the exit in business planning or succession planning, that's a huge deal right now. One of the things that's very big in my industry, there's a lot of advisors that are having issues selling their business. effectively because they didn't think about an exit strategy.
Shauna Tax Goddess: And because it is, that's where it has to start. Yeah.
Ryan Kolden: That's also something that really surprised me about the CPA industry as a whole is there's, it seems like there's a lot more CPAs that are retiring than there are coming into the business. And it actually makes it that much harder to find a good CPA or they're all being, I think maybe. filing is being taken replaced by like TurboTax and HR block and things like that.
Shauna Tax Goddess: Yeah, your 1040 practices, they don't need them very much anymore, right? I mean, some people still want to sit across the desk and do the face to face. So you know that that's fair. There was actually an article that was released at the federal level for candidates to become a CPA. They actually reduced by almost half the requirements, the education, the knowledge, everything else for new CPAs to become CPA. because there isn't enough CPAs to take over, right? So, yeah, it was really, I saw that and I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Another reason to hire overseas for anybody looking, but that's a whole issue. Yeah, the business is being sold out. I think one of the biggest This is when people make money, in my opinion. This is when, if you are young, if you are interested, I would say any age under about 50, and you're still interested in growth, in expansion, in acquiring, in building that empire. And this is why those two informational, the webinars and the knowledge go together, right? Because you got the buyer side and you got the seller side, right? I want to build an empire and I want to sell my empire. And those two things really go hand in hand. It's very difficult to have something to sell if nobody's willing to buy it. Right.
SPEAKER_01: So that's, it's a huge, it is a huge problem.
Ryan Kolden: And, um, I'm sure we're going to see how that shapes out here in the next 10, 10 to 20 years. Now here's another kind of fun question that I like to ask CPAs. So I'm sure throughout your time, uh, you know, you've probably seen some wild expenses, whether that be on the personal side or on the business side, that kind of just caught you off guard. You're like, wow, you can spend that much on, you know, insert whatever it is. What is something on in your personal life that you maybe spend too much on? And if you were auditing yourself, you would kind of be like, oh no, like, Hey, that's, you shouldn't be doing that. Not anything illegal, but like, Hey, you're overspending here. But you also believe it gives you. return. So let me give you an example. For me, I'm a huge surfer. I love going on surf trips. I love spending on surfboards, wetsuits. It's something that gives me an infinite return on life.
Shauna Tax Goddess: Personal joy. You can't beat it. I mean, period.
Ryan Kolden: Yeah. What is that thing for you, Shalma?
Shauna Tax Goddess: So I'm a little bit of a homebody. I love to garden. I love to get my hands in the dirt. And so I actually have a food forest on my property. I have over 78 fruit trees. I raise rabbit, I raise quail. So yeah, being in the garden, being in nature is a big deal for me. And you know, of course, now side note, is it not giving me a return? I do have a farm and I sell those things. There's always a way to deduct it, right? As long as you're making a profit, there's always a way to deduct it.
Ryan Kolden: I wouldn't expect anything less from a master's in taxation, a tax strategist. So Shauna, we're kind of wrapping things up here. Before I let everyone know, or you tell everybody where they can learn more about you, do you have any last words you want to leave people with?
Shauna Tax Goddess: I think the biggest thing is just be careful what you wish for. We hear everyone wants to save money on their taxes, of course. Who would want to overpay if you don't legally have to? The downsides to being called, being titled a goddess, people will come and say, great goddess, wave the magic wand, tap, poof, save me a bunch of money. It is a little bit of work. It's maybe a bigger little bit of work. If that's something you're looking for, it can exist, but be prepared to give a little bit of effort for it.
Ryan Kolden: And Shauna, where can people learn more about you and where can they get in contact with you?
Shauna Tax Goddess: Thank you. We are super easy to find. My team and I can be found at taxgoddess.com. We're currently a team of a little over a hundred. Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01: That's a big firm.
Shauna Tax Goddess: We, well, you know, grown over the years, right? So when you do good by people, they are happy and life is good. So.
Ryan Kolden: Well, fantastic. I will go ahead and put all of Shauna's website contact information in the show notes. Shauna, appreciate having you on today. And that's a wrap. Take care.
Shauna Tax Goddess: Thanks.
Ryan Kolden: Hey, real quick before you go, thanks for listening and please remember to hit follow on your podcast player. You won't miss any episodes and it helps support us bring you the show. Today's show notes and resources are available to you by clicking the link in the description. The opinions and views expressed here are for informational purposes only and does not tax, legal, financial, investment or accounting advice. This material is educational in nature and should not be deemed as solicitation of any specific product or service. All investments involve risk and a potential for a loss of principal. Should you need such advice, please consult with a licensed financial, tax, or legal professional. Neither host nor guest can be held responsible for any direct or incidental loss incurred by applying any of the information offered.
